Was Sandy systematically caused by CO2?
Anthony Watts wrote down a nice table describing which folks believe or at least pretend to believe that CO2 "caused" Hurricane Sandy and which people don't. If I simplify it a little bit, activists, liars, and crackpots such as Al Gore support the link while scientists don't. I am kind of pleased to see that for the first time, most of the media seem to agree that the people promoting the hurricane-CO2 link are hacks.
I was intrigued by a member of the former group, hardcore leftist activist Mr George Lakoff, who wrote the following text for the Huffington Post:
He introduces a new problematic term: "systematic causation". He believes that fossil fuels "systemically caused" Hurricane Sandy (and other weather events we don't like). The description makes it look like the construct "A systemically caused B" means "A increased the odds of B" – note that my alternative wording is equally long, much more accurate, and not requiring any new contrived phrases.
Except that Mr Lakoff believes that AIDS is only "systemically caused", not "directly caused", by the HIV virus. That's pretty interesting. Either he is an HIV denier or his definition of "systemic causation" is internally inconsistent. But let's ask two questions: Was Sandy "systemically caused" by CO2 emissions? And forgetting about the answer and focusing on genuine "systemic causes" of bad events in general, is it legitimate for the society to outlaw them?
My answer to both questions is No, although the latter question deserves a subtler discussion.
Unless you believe in astrology and similar things, you will surely agree that it's not in the power of CO2 or any other indirect hypothetical causes to adjust some "highly internal" and "seemingly random" characteristics of tropical storms such as the population of the city that the storms target. ;-)
So the fact that Sandy managed to flood some tunnels in the New York subway system, among dozens of related achievements, is pretty clearly a coincidence that can't be explained by any well-defined long-term "cause", not even a "systemic cause". Most hurricanes avoid New York, some hurricanes get there, and only the proportion may be measured or theoretically calculated. In other words, when we talk about unknown future hurricanes, we may only predict their ability to target New York or other great cities probabilistically. And we may only estimate the probability that the most important hurricane of 2013 will make landing at most 4 days before the Halloween.
(The same comment, "only probabilistic predictions are possible", obviously applies to earthquakes in Italy, too.)
Needless to say, exactly the same words apply to Katrina and New Orleans in 2005. Katrina was a big story – much bigger than Sandy (surely by the number of casualties) – because it hit a large and relatively vulnerable city of New Orleans. Sandy was a relatively big story because it affected the "greatest city in the world" although not as much as Katrina did harm New Orleans. Let's agree that the targeting is a matter of chance.
But if you subtract all the "special characteristics" of Sandy that are related to its random path, there is almost nothing left. In fact, by the Accumulated Cyclone Energy (ACE), Sandy isn't even the largest storm of the 2012 Atlantic hurricane season. It's not even the second one. It's not even the third one: Sandy is just the fourth largest Atlantic tropical storm of 2012. That shouldn't be shocking because it has made it to the Category 2 and only marginally and for a short time.
One may look for various detailed properties of Sandy – its trajectory, its area, its pre-Halloween timing, and so on. But I think it's clear that trying to attribute some "message" (I would say "divine message") to any of these detailed properties is a sign of medieval superstitions. People who try to interpret these properties as divine signals may use a quasi-scientific vocabulary but the vocabulary isn't the essence. The essence is the logic behind their thoughts and beliefs and it is equally unscientific as any other generic medieval superstitions.
The fact that Sandy went to New Jersey is a coincidence – one that could be predicted a few days in advance but one that has no implications for any knowledge or mechanisms that are relevant outside the end of October 2012. The fact that Sandy hit before the Halloween or before the U.S. presidential election is another coincidence. It's totally scientifically implausible to assign "causes" or "systemic causes" to such microscopic accidental characteristics of a tropical storm. Such links are equivalent to astrology and other superstitions. There isn't any conceivable natural mechanism that could impose such causal links – and there's even no conceivable mechanism or explanation that could significantly increase the chance that a hurricane is more Sandy-like if the CO2 concentration is higher. I am convinced that everyone who has been given basic scientific education – or who has a basic scientific intuition even in the absence of any formal education – must know that.
So we are back to the usual questions whether the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere may be increasing or decreasing the number or hurricanes or their average or maximum intensity. I think that the data speak a clear language: no such dependence, whether positive or negative, may be extracted from the data that seem to be fully explainable by "noise", essentially "white noise". In the future, the datasets will become more extensive and perhaps more accurate and people may see a signal we don't see today. That's why it makes sense to ask whether we may predict what they will see. I think (based on arguments I have been repeatedly explained by Richard Lindzen in particular) that if they will ever see such an impact, it should be a negative impact – fewer hurricanes or weaker hurricanes. It's because storminess and other activity is driven by temperature (and other) gradients and in a hypothetical warmer world, the equator-pole temperature difference should be smaller because the poles should warm up faster. The gradients should decrease and because the gradients power the cyclone activity (and other things, including temperature variations in general), the cyclone activity should go down.
That's my prediction but I don't know how strong the effect is. It's probably very weak and it may remain invisible for centuries and perhaps forever because "global warming caused by CO2" will most likely never have an observable effect that would go beyond a modest shift of the global mean temperature.
Even when you look at the 2012 Atlantic hurricane season which became another heavily overhyped one, you will see that the Accumulated Cyclone Energy is just 121 so far, just marginally higher than the historical average around 105. The ACEs for individual seasons are never constant. They belong to some statistical distribution. It's inevitable that sometimes, the ACE ends up being above the average, sometimes (in many years after 2005), it ends up being below the average. There's nothing shocking about either outcome: it's a law of physics that such things are not constant although left-wing, egalitarian activists often have a problem with this totally basic concept underlying all of science.
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Yes, Sandy was not a CO2 event exclusively. So what? Sandy is one in a line of extreme weather events indicating that global warming is happening and happening at a fast pace. So, do you get it? Go ahead and slam these folks who directly relate this one event to CO2, but leave the crredentialed scientists, the bulk of them I add, out-of-it, please.
While we are making appeals to authority how about Phil Jones of the UK CRU and Climate Gate Fame? www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2220722/Global-warming-The-Mail-Sunday-answers-world-warming-not.html#ixzz2A37Hcp8F%20 Quote:
Been asking myself that queston a lot.
you know so much
why not provide a list of the
actual creditable and credible
scientists who support your contentions
individual names that can be consulted
not amorphous unidentifiable group labels
can you
i don't think you can
show a list who claim
the greenhouse effect is even
scientifically provable
ever hear of the petition project
there are actual real scientists there
and they emphatically diagree with you
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_climate_scientists
Just a couple there I found in a 30 second search, there are many more. Do a search dude...find out for yourself. I did this for you, I'll so some more if you insist. But jeez.
You are making the mistake that logic, citations, experts and credentials will sway a sCeptic's religious beliefs.
They only believe electrical engineers who molest children, make puzzles, and fake their names and credentials.
So unless you are paedophile, with no scientific qualification and lie about who you are, and never offer evidence to support your arguments, you have no chance with these people.
Strange, but true.
how is logic religious
Release the data?!? You mean like Mann's hockey stick data that has been in the public domain for more than a decade?
Nobel Laureates are fakes? Well, you can do a Bill clinton there if you wish and try to parse what "is" "is". The facts are these. Mann's CV stated these exact words "He contributed, with other IPCC authors, to the 1997 Nobel Peace prize". And what did the IPCC, itself, do? They give Mann an award for his help in contributing to the Nobel Prize!
So, lets see, Mann is guilty of stating on his resume that he contributed to an award that the award winners themselves, the IPCC, agree with. OH, THE AFFRONTONTORY! HOW DARE HE LIE SO BLATANTLY?
And you try and elevate this microscopic ant hill to the level of a John OMG'Sullivan mountain?!? OMG'Sullivan lies outright about his credentials of being a lawyer and that he has successfully prosecuted cases in the US and the UK?!? OMG'Sullivan and is also a person who wrote a book about a mature man's fascination with young girls after losing his own job in England over an issue regarding his unnatural attraction to his daughter's friend?!?
sCeptics are so blinded by bias that you are immune to rational thought.
Secondly, how dare you speak to a Nobel laureate that way. Born in Europe, I am now a Nobel Peace Prize winner, ooops!, contributed, to the EU and anxiously await my certificate. I've also updated my resume.
Finally do you mean Bob Menendez?
PS. Hahahahahaha!!!
Mann hasn't stated that he contributed to the awarding of the Nobel Peace Prize to the IPCC, he has stated that he won it. From his complaint filed against the National Review Online: "As a result of this research, Dr. Mann and his collegues were awarded the Nobel Peace Prize." See here: legaltimes.typepad.com/files/michael-mann-complaint.pdf
However, according to the Nobel Prize committee, Mann was never awarded the prize. See here:http://www.nationalreview .com/corner/331738/michael-man ns-false-nobel-claim-charles-c -w-cooke (and there are other places to find this, just search).
So, Mann has lied (or at least exaggerated) about winning a Nobel Peace Prize. What else has he lied (or exaggerated) about?
scienceblogs.com/deltoid/2009/01/20/97-of-active-climatologists-ag/
Scientists need to back up their opinions with research and data that survive the peer-review process. A survey of all peer-reviewed abstracts on the subject 'global climate change' published between 1993 and 2003 shows that not a single paper rejected the consensus position that global warming is man caused (Oreskes 2004). 75% of the papers agreed with the consensus position while 25% made no comment either way (focused on methods or paleoclimate analysis).
www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-scientific-consensus-intermediate.htm
www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-scientific-consensus-intermediate.htm
■Skeptical Science – John Cook
* Due to (1) deletion, extension and amending of user comments, and (2) undated post-publication revisions of article contents after significant user commenting.
climate scientists
where does it say what there position is
with regard to alarmist claims
consult
petionproject.org
there are a lot more scientists there
and they reject your
alarmist dogma
Or maybe I should ask, what dogma are you referring to?
You better get Gator in here quick, you're gonna sink if you keep at this my friend.
abcnews.go.com/Nightline/Eco/climate-change-debate-climatologists-meteorologists-divided-global-warming/story?id=10447809
"While most climatologists agree that humans are driving global warming -- literally, in some respects, because of our reliance on fossil fuels -- some of the most trusted names in the weather business don't buy it. John Coleman, the founder of "The Weather Channel" and the original weatherman on "Good Morning America"
Now note that I pasted the entire statement, something you guys need to learn how to do.
Well, at least he didn't lie about his qualifications.
abcnews.go.com/Nightline/Eco/climate-change-debate-climatologists-meteorologists-divided-global-warming/comments?type=story&id=10447809
the petition project all you want
the fact remains
not only is
scientific proof
not on your side
neither is
scientific opinion
no ammount of verbosity by you
can change that
it's there and it's unspinable
i don't care
the truth is the contrary
every claim you make
has not only never been proven
it has been shown
demonstrably false
remember clown your side made the claims
and has yet to demonstrate an iota of
credible proof
opinion is not proof
and you claim science
is on your side
climatesight.org/2009/06/17/ignore-the-petition-project/
www.huffingtonpost.com/kevin-grandia/the-30000-global-warming_b_243092.html
www.ucsusa.org/global_warming/science_and_impacts/global_warming_contrarians/global-warming-skeptic.html
www.reposter.net/2011/04/the-petition-project-has-been-thoroughly-debunked-climate-skeptics-get-over-it/
if you want to believe
alarmist responses
of no credible proof
if you think their editorial/political
opinions are akin to actual
scientific proof
you deserve to
wallow in your ignorance
nothing can help you
debunked
debunked where and credibly
i call upon any people reading this to do
the research of what both of us have said
and state your own opinion
rely/resort to logic
to further your argument
is very telling
emotional desparation is akin to
argumentum ad hominem
when nothing else
will win the question
most others would say
they feel sorry for you
i don't
because you are
promoting a lie
Models are not Actuals or empirical they are theory.
Empirical Evidence means actual observations like temperature readings.
In real science you adjust the Model to fit the data. In Climate "Science" data is adjusted to fit the Model or simply ignored. Quote: Get it?
Think tank IPPR and engineering consultants GL Garrad Hassan have attempted to analyse some of the most common myths that dog the wind energy sector in their landmark study, Beyond the Bluster – "Why wind power is an effective technology".
Myth: Wind energy subsidies are pushing up energy bills.
Fact: Renewable energy subsidies do add to energy bills, but "from 2004 to 2010, government support for renewables added £30 to the average energy bill while rises in the wholesale cost of gas added £290".
Myth: Back-up power plants mean wind energy does not deliver net reductions in carbon emissions
Fact: In 2011, wind turbines in the UK provided 15.5 terawatt hours to the grid. Due to its lower marginal cost this power would have displaced fossil fuel power from the grid, meaning that wind energy saved a minimum of 5.5 million tonnes of CO2 if gas was displaced and a maximum of over 12 million tonnes if coal was displaced.
continued. . .
Myth: The powering up and down of fossil fuel plants to cope with wind energy intermittency undermines their efficiency and leads to a net increase in emissions.
Fact: More advanced modelling is required in the UK to disprove this hypothesis, but empirical studies from US states with a high proportion of wind energy have shown "unequivocally" that wind energy supplies have "significantly" reduced the average carbon intensity of fossil fuel power plants on the same grid.
Myth: The "intermittent" nature of wind power makes it impossible to manage.
Fact: Wind power is not "intermittent" in that it does not suddenly and unexpectedly turn on and off in the way that fossil fuel and nuclear plants do. Instead it is "variable", meaning that increasingly accurate weather forecasting makes it possible to predict changes in output ahead of time. This makes wind energy significantly easier to manage as
you bring it on to the grid.
Remember Anne, facts are your friend.
Hahahahahahahahaha!!
You voted Obama, didn't you!