Was Sandy systematically caused by CO2?

Written by Luboš Motl Pilsen, Ph.D., The Reference Frame.

satelliteimageAnthony Watts wrote down a nice table describing which folks believe or at least pretend to believe that CO2 "caused" Hurricane Sandy and which people don't. If I simplify it a little bit, activists, liars, and crackpots such as Al Gore support the link while scientists don't. I am kind of pleased to see that for the first time, most of the media seem to agree that the people promoting the hurricane-CO2 link are hacks.

I was intrigued by a member of the former group, hardcore leftist activist Mr George Lakoff, who wrote the following text for the Huffington Post:

Global Warming Systemically Caused Hurricane Sandy

He introduces a new problematic term: "systematic causation". He believes that fossil fuels "systemically caused" Hurricane Sandy (and other weather events we don't like). The description makes it look like the construct "A systemically caused B" means "A increased the odds of B" – note that my alternative wording is equally long, much more accurate, and not requiring any new contrived phrases.

Except that Mr Lakoff believes that AIDS is only "systemically caused", not "directly caused", by the HIV virus. That's pretty interesting. Either he is an HIV denier or his definition of "systemic causation" is internally inconsistent. But let's ask two questions: Was Sandy "systemically caused" by CO2 emissions? And forgetting about the answer and focusing on genuine "systemic causes" of bad events in general, is it legitimate for the society to outlaw them?

My answer to both questions is No, although the latter question deserves a subtler discussion.

Unless you believe in astrology and similar things, you will surely agree that it's not in the power of CO2 or any other indirect hypothetical causes to adjust some "highly internal" and "seemingly random" characteristics of tropical storms such as the population of the city that the storms target. ;-)

So the fact that Sandy managed to flood some tunnels in the New York subway system, among dozens of related achievements, is pretty clearly a coincidence that can't be explained by any well-defined long-term "cause", not even a "systemic cause". Most hurricanes avoid New York, some hurricanes get there, and only the proportion may be measured or theoretically calculated. In other words, when we talk about unknown future hurricanes, we may only predict their ability to target New York or other great cities probabilistically. And we may only estimate the probability that the most important hurricane of 2013 will make landing at most 4 days before the Halloween.

(The same comment, "only probabilistic predictions are possible", obviously applies to earthquakes in Italy, too.)

Needless to say, exactly the same words apply to Katrina and New Orleans in 2005. Katrina was a big story – much bigger than Sandy (surely by the number of casualties) – because it hit a large and relatively vulnerable city of New Orleans. Sandy was a relatively big story because it affected the "greatest city in the world" although not as much as Katrina did harm New Orleans. Let's agree that the targeting is a matter of chance.

But if you subtract all the "special characteristics" of Sandy that are related to its random path, there is almost nothing left. In fact, by the Accumulated Cyclone Energy (ACE), Sandy isn't even the largest storm of the 2012 Atlantic hurricane season. It's not even the second one. It's not even the third one: Sandy is just the fourth largest Atlantic tropical storm of 2012. That shouldn't be shocking because it has made it to the Category 2 and only marginally and for a short time.

One may look for various detailed properties of Sandy – its trajectory, its area, its pre-Halloween timing, and so on. But I think it's clear that trying to attribute some "message" (I would say "divine message") to any of these detailed properties is a sign of medieval superstitions. People who try to interpret these properties as divine signals may use a quasi-scientific vocabulary but the vocabulary isn't the essence. The essence is the logic behind their thoughts and beliefs and it is equally unscientific as any other generic medieval superstitions.

The fact that Sandy went to New Jersey is a coincidence – one that could be predicted a few days in advance but one that has no implications for any knowledge or mechanisms that are relevant outside the end of October 2012. The fact that Sandy hit before the Halloween or before the U.S. presidential election is another coincidence. It's totally scientifically implausible to assign "causes" or "systemic causes" to such microscopic accidental characteristics of a tropical storm. Such links are equivalent to astrology and other superstitions. There isn't any conceivable natural mechanism that could impose such causal links – and there's even no conceivable mechanism or explanation that could significantly increase the chance that a hurricane is more Sandy-like if the CO2 concentration is higher. I am convinced that everyone who has been given basic scientific education – or who has a basic scientific intuition even in the absence of any formal education – must know that.

So we are back to the usual questions whether the carbon dioxide in the atmosphere may be increasing or decreasing the number or hurricanes or their average or maximum intensity. I think that the data speak a clear language: no such dependence, whether positive or negative, may be extracted from the data that seem to be fully explainable by "noise", essentially "white noise". In the future, the datasets will become more extensive and perhaps more accurate and people may see a signal we don't see today. That's why it makes sense to ask whether we may predict what they will see. I think (based on arguments I have been repeatedly explained by Richard Lindzen in particular) that if they will ever see such an impact, it should be a negative impact – fewer hurricanes or weaker hurricanes. It's because storminess and other activity is driven by temperature (and other) gradients and in a hypothetical warmer world, the equator-pole temperature difference should be smaller because the poles should warm up faster. The gradients should decrease and because the gradients power the cyclone activity (and other things, including temperature variations in general), the cyclone activity should go down.

That's my prediction but I don't know how strong the effect is. It's probably very weak and it may remain invisible for centuries and perhaps forever because "global warming caused by CO2" will most likely never have an observable effect that would go beyond a modest shift of the global mean temperature.

Even when you look at the 2012 Atlantic hurricane season which became another heavily overhyped one, you will see that the Accumulated Cyclone Energy is just 121 so far, just marginally higher than the historical average around 105. The ACEs for individual seasons are never constant. They belong to some statistical distribution. It's inevitable that sometimes, the ACE ends up being above the average, sometimes (in many years after 2005), it ends up being below the average. There's nothing shocking about either outcome: it's a law of physics that such things are not constant although left-wing, egalitarian activists often have a problem with this totally basic concept underlying all of science.

Read rest…

Comments  

 
Danny Heim
# Danny Heim 10-31-2012 17:27
way way out of context, how do yu guys expect to be believed.
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Danny Heim
# Danny Heim 10-31-2012 17:30
Richard Lindzen? And who else i mighht ask? Richard Lindzen, give me a break.
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Danny Heim
# Danny Heim 10-31-2012 17:38
Why don't you ask the staff at NASA, NOAA, the Royal Society, the many other scientist at MIT besides Lindzen, also ask Oxford, Cornell, harvard, the NAS,even the WMS for Pete's sake. Cherry pickers.

Yes, Sandy was not a CO2 event exclusively. So what? Sandy is one in a line of extreme weather events indicating that global warming is happening and happening at a fast pace. So, do you get it? Go ahead and slam these folks who directly relate this one event to CO2, but leave the crredentialed scientists, the bulk of them I add, out-of-it, please.
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amirlach
# amirlach 10-31-2012 21:00
Global Warming is "Happening at a fast pace"? Really?

While we are making appeals to authority how about Phil Jones of the UK CRU and Climate Gate Fame? www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2220722/Global-warming-The-Mail-Sunday-answers-world-warming-not.html#ixzz2A37Hcp8F%20 Quote:
The Hadcrut 4 figures that show a ‘pause’ in warming lasting nearly 16 years are drawn from more than 3,000 measuring stations on land and at sea. Hadcrut 4 is one of several similar global databases that reveal the same thing: that since January 1997 there has been no statistically significant warming of the Earth’s surface.
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pinroot
# pinroot 11-02-2012 12:34
It's reached the point where ANY extreme weather event is held up as evidence of Global Warming/Climate Change/Whatever-the-name-du-jo ur-is. When record snows occurred and skeptics laughed, alarmists used to say "Weather isn't climate." Now alarmists just say it was caused by Global Warming/Climate Change/Whatever. Apparently there is now NO extreme weather event which can't be explained by the 0.39% of our atmosphere which is composed of CO2, and there is no shortage of arm-chair quarterbacks ready to make the claim that every extreme event is CO2 related, which is probably one of the reasons so few people are buying the tripe they're putting out.
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Danny Heim
# Danny Heim 11-02-2012 14:33
Is it really that important Pinroot? Really? that important. More important than just being a human being, you know, a member of a species, you know, your fellow man, the human race, you know?
Been asking myself that queston a lot.
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prestigio
# prestigio 10-31-2012 18:20
Herr heim
you know so much

why not provide a list of the
actual creditable and credible
scientists who support your contentions

individual names that can be consulted
not amorphous unidentifiable group labels

can you
i don't think you can

show a list who claim
the greenhouse effect is even
scientifically provable

ever hear of the petition project
there are actual real scientists there
and they emphatically diagree with you
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Danny Heim
# Danny Heim 10-31-2012 18:30
articles.cnn.com/2009-01-19/world/eco.globalwarmingsurvey_1_global-warming-climate-science-human-activity?_s=PM:WORLD

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_climate_scientists
Just a couple there I found in a 30 second search, there are many more. Do a search dude...find out for yourself. I did this for you, I'll so some more if you insist. But jeez.
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Drewski
# Drewski 10-31-2012 21:08
Danny, Danny, Danny,
You are making the mistake that logic, citations, experts and credentials will sway a sCeptic's religious beliefs.

They only believe electrical engineers who molest children, make puzzles, and fake their names and credentials.

So unless you are paedophile, with no scientific qualification and lie about who you are, and never offer evidence to support your arguments, you have no chance with these people.

Strange, but true.
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prestigio
# prestigio 10-31-2012 21:13
drewski dope

how is logic religious
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amirlach
# amirlach 10-31-2012 21:42
Fake credntials? Like those fake Nobel Laureates who steadfastly refuse to release data you so admire Comrade drewski?
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Drewski
# Drewski 10-31-2012 23:58
amirlach, you must also be suffering from "romnesia".

Release the data?!? You mean like Mann's hockey stick data that has been in the public domain for more than a decade?

Nobel Laureates are fakes? Well, you can do a Bill clinton there if you wish and try to parse what "is" "is". The facts are these. Mann's CV stated these exact words "He contributed, with other IPCC authors, to the 1997 Nobel Peace prize". And what did the IPCC, itself, do? They give Mann an award for his help in contributing to the Nobel Prize!

So, lets see, Mann is guilty of stating on his resume that he contributed to an award that the award winners themselves, the IPCC, agree with. OH, THE AFFRONTONTORY! HOW DARE HE LIE SO BLATANTLY?

And you try and elevate this microscopic ant hill to the level of a John OMG'Sullivan mountain?!? OMG'Sullivan lies outright about his credentials of being a lawyer and that he has successfully prosecuted cases in the US and the UK?!? OMG'Sullivan and is also a person who wrote a book about a mature man's fascination with young girls after losing his own job in England over an issue regarding his unnatural attraction to his daughter's friend?!?

sCeptics are so blinded by bias that you are immune to rational thought.
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red jeff
# red jeff 11-01-2012 08:36
The Return of Cool Whip (TM)! No, by data we mean computer code that 'creats' the result. Perhaps you're a newcomer to the globull warming debate.

Secondly, how dare you speak to a Nobel laureate that way. Born in Europe, I am now a Nobel Peace Prize winner, ooops!, contributed, to the EU and anxiously await my certificate. I've also updated my resume.

Finally do you mean Bob Menendez?

PS. Hahahahahaha!!!
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pinroot
# pinroot 11-01-2012 10:02
So, lets see, Mann is guilty of stating on his resume that he contributed to an award that the award winners themselves, the IPCC, agree with. OH, THE AFFRONTONTORY! HOW DARE HE LIE SO BLATANTLY?

Mann hasn't stated that he contributed to the awarding of the Nobel Peace Prize to the IPCC, he has stated that he won it. From his complaint filed against the National Review Online: "As a result of this research, Dr. Mann and his collegues were awarded the Nobel Peace Prize." See here: legaltimes.typepad.com/files/michael-mann-complaint.pdf

However, according to the Nobel Prize committee, Mann was never awarded the prize. See here:http://www.nationalreview .com/corner/331738/michael-man ns-false-nobel-claim-charles-c -w-cooke (and there are other places to find this, just search).

So, Mann has lied (or at least exaggerated) about winning a Nobel Peace Prize. What else has he lied (or exaggerated) about?
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amirlach
# amirlach 11-01-2012 19:50
Quote:
Release the data?!? You mean like Mann's hockey stick data that has been in the public domain for more than a decade?
Really Comrade ddrewski? Must be why he was fighting so desperately against those FOIA requests. Deleting emails and so on... :D Quote:
So, lets see, Mann is guilty of stating on his resume that he contributed to an award that the award winners themselves, the IPCC, agree with. OH, THE AFFRONTONTORY! HOW DARE HE LIE SO BLATANTLY?
And how DARE HE ALTER HIS PSU BIO PAGE to hide his GUILT? :D Quote:
Geir Lundestad, Director, Professor, of The Norwegian Nobel Institute emailed me back with the following:


1) Michael Mann has never been awarded the Nobel Peace Prize.
2) He did not receive any personal certificate. He has taken the diploma awarded in 2007 to the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (and to Al Gore) and made his own text underneath this authentic-looking diploma.
3) The text underneath the diploma is entirely his own. We issued only the diploma to the IPCC as such. No individuals on the IPCC side received anything in 2007.
examiner.com/.../...
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Danny Heim
# Danny Heim 11-01-2012 10:02
..........yip
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Danny Heim
# Danny Heim 10-31-2012 18:34
here you go
Scientists need to back up their opinions with research and data that survive the peer-review process. A survey of all peer-reviewed abstracts on the subject 'global climate change' published between 1993 and 2003 shows that not a single paper rejected the consensus position that global warming is man caused (Oreskes 2004). 75% of the papers agreed with the consensus position while 25% made no comment either way (focused on methods or paleoclimate analysis).

www.skepticalscience.com/global-warming-scientific-consensus-intermediate.htm
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amirlach
# amirlach 10-31-2012 21:09
Quote:
The great Fred Singer takes the time to explain why Naomi Oreskes is a scientifically inept and a poor historian. Her famous claim of a scientific consensus based on 900 papers missed more than 11,000 that should have been included. Her grasp of science is so poor she isn’t familiar with the pH scale, thinks Beryllium is a heavy metal, mistakenly assumes that CO2 is trapped in the troposphere, and climate models can predict forest fires and floods. Embarrassingly, Oreskes doesn’t understand the difference between reactive oxygen and radioactive oxygen.
joannenova.com.au/2011/06/oreskes-clumsy-venomous-smear-campaign-busted/
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amirlach
# amirlach 10-31-2012 21:08
sCeptical Skience is not a reliable source. Unreliable*
■Skeptical Science – John Cook


* Due to (1) deletion, extension and amending of user comments, and (2) undated post-publication revisions of article contents after significant user commenting.
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prestigio
# prestigio 10-31-2012 18:37
nice list of
climate scientists

where does it say what there position is
with regard to alarmist claims

consult
petionproject.org

there are a lot more scientists there
and they reject your
alarmist dogma
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Danny Heim
# Danny Heim 10-31-2012 18:54
I don't have alarmist dogma of my own, I get my dogma from these scientists you wanted to know about.

Or maybe I should ask, what dogma are you referring to?

You better get Gator in here quick, you're gonna sink if you keep at this my friend.
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Danny Heim
# Danny Heim 10-31-2012 18:43
you'll actually like this article, but note the one of the first lines.

"While most climatologists agree that humans are driving global warming -- literally, in some respects, because of our reliance on fossil fuels -- some of the most trusted names in the weather business don't buy it. John Coleman, the founder of "The Weather Channel" and the original weatherman on "Good Morning America"

Now note that I pasted the entire statement, something you guys need to learn how to do.
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Drewski
# Drewski 11-01-2012 01:31
John coleman reads the weather -- he has a scientific degree in -- now get this -- journalism!!!

Well, at least he didn't lie about his qualifications.
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Danny Heim
# Danny Heim 10-31-2012 18:45
I'm sure you will have a good time cherry picking this a part, glad to have given you something to do. Good day. BTW, this all took me about 5 minutes or so.
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prestigio
# prestigio 10-31-2012 18:48
ignore
the petition project all you want

the fact remains
not only is
scientific proof
not on your side

neither is
scientific opinion

no ammount of verbosity by you
can change that
it's there and it's unspinable
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Danny Heim
# Danny Heim 10-31-2012 18:57
Dude, I remember this list from petionproject.org. It was hugely debunked long ago. Are you going to need me to show that debunking as well, or what? Maybe you otta quit.
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prestigio
# prestigio 10-31-2012 19:06
lie all you want
i don't care

the truth is the contrary
every claim you make
has not only never been proven
it has been shown
demonstrably false

remember clown your side made the claims
and has yet to demonstrate an iota of
credible proof

opinion is not proof

and you claim science
is on your side
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prestigio
# prestigio 10-31-2012 19:27
good night danny baby

if you want to believe
alarmist responses
of no credible proof

if you think their editorial/political
opinions are akin to actual
scientific proof

you deserve to
wallow in your ignorance

nothing can help you
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prestigio
# prestigio 10-31-2012 19:18
btw

debunked

debunked where and credibly

i call upon any people reading this to do
the research of what both of us have said
and state your own opinion
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Danny Heim
# Danny Heim 10-31-2012 19:23
You see this is why it is so important to go with credentials. You will most likely have just as may debunks as I can muster. Debunks go on forever, I don't have forever so places like NASA, MIT, Oxofrd, Harvard, the NAS, the Royal Society and many more that are known, reliable, and the ones governemnts go to for info, etc. etc. are what one should be loking at. otherwise, you get crap from all over the place, that goes for the AGW theory as well as the claims of skeptics.
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prestigio
# prestigio 10-31-2012 19:36
the fact that you cannnot
rely/resort to logic
to further your argument
is very telling

emotional desparation is akin to
argumentum ad hominem
when nothing else
will win the question

most others would say
they feel sorry for you

i don't
because you are
promoting a lie
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amirlach
# amirlach 10-31-2012 21:16
Trouble is none of the "Reliable" groups you call to for authority have made any accurate predictions, with the models they claim are "Evidence". Quote:
Professor Richard Feynman, Nobel Laureate in Physics said,


“It does not matter who you are, or how smart you are, or what title you have, or how many of you there are, and certainly not how many papers your side has published, if your prediction is wrong then your hypothesis is wrong. Period.”

Climate predictions are consistently wrong, so the hypothesis is wrong and the computer models built on it are wrong and produce meaingless results.
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amirlach
# amirlach 10-31-2012 21:23
Hey! Why is it when these "known, reliable, and the ones governemnts go to for info, etc. etc." are drawn into a debate they cannot produce any empirical evidence to support the claims they make? But.. But... Our Models show... :cry: Quote:
From the report one gets the impression that PIK puts a lot faith in climate models and is suspicious observations that do not conform to their models. In real science one ought to be suspicious of models that do not conform to real-life observations. Michael Limburg also added in his e-mail:


The scientific position and ability of PIK scientists during that meeting was rather weak. Whenever they had to agree that observation do not show any special increase neither in extreme weather, temperature nor sea level and so on, they mentioned: ‘But our models show…’ “

That their science is weak ought not be a surprise. What else could one possibly expect from a science that ignores observations and relies on models?
Europes IPCC stars get WTFPAWNED by empirical observations! :D
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Danny Heim
# Danny Heim 11-01-2012 09:57
Emperical evidince? On the climate? Give me an example. Not sure they could do that emprically without models. But they do get their emprical evidence when they match the actuals to the projections from th models. Get it?
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amirlach
# amirlach 11-01-2012 20:12
Quote:
But they do get their emprical evidence when they match the actuals to the projections from th models. Get it?
Looks like you don't get it. They do not get the "Actuals" from Model results. Empirical means "Actual" measures. Actual real world observations like Radiosonodes on weather balloons.

Models are not Actuals or empirical they are theory.

Empirical Evidence means actual observations like temperature readings. "The models predicted a hot spot (left), the radiosondes couldn't find anything like it." When your Model is wrong your theory is wrong. Period!

In real science you adjust the Model to fit the data. In Climate "Science" data is adjusted to fit the Model or simply ignored. Quote:
That their science is weak ought not be a surprise. What else could one possibly expect from a science that ignores observations and relies on models?
Get it?
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anne
# anne 11-01-2012 02:41
www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/energy/9644558/Death-knell-for-wind-farms-Enough-is-Enough-says-minister.html Meanwhile here in UK this will cause another hysterical uproar by the 'greenies'.
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Drewski
# Drewski 11-01-2012 04:12
Hi Anne, I know you love "consuming" your unreferenced articles. Perhaps you would like a side order of facts:

Think tank IPPR and engineering consultants GL Garrad Hassan have attempted to analyse some of the most common myths that dog the wind energy sector in their landmark study, Beyond the Bluster – "Why wind power is an effective technology".

Myth: Wind energy subsidies are pushing up energy bills.
Fact: Renewable energy subsidies do add to energy bills, but "from 2004 to 2010, government support for renewables added £30 to the average energy bill while rises in the wholesale cost of gas added £290".
Myth: Back-up power plants mean wind energy does not deliver net reductions in carbon emissions
Fact: In 2011, wind turbines in the UK provided 15.5 terawatt hours to the grid. Due to its lower marginal cost this power would have displaced fossil fuel power from the grid, meaning that wind energy saved a minimum of 5.5 million tonnes of CO2 if gas was displaced and a maximum of over 12 million tonnes if coal was displaced.

continued. . .
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Drewski
# Drewski 11-01-2012 04:13
more on wind. . .

Myth: The powering up and down of fossil fuel plants to cope with wind energy intermittency undermines their efficiency and leads to a net increase in emissions.
Fact: More advanced modelling is required in the UK to disprove this hypothesis, but empirical studies from US states with a high proportion of wind energy have shown "unequivocally" that wind energy supplies have "significantly" reduced the average carbon intensity of fossil fuel power plants on the same grid.

Myth: The "intermittent" nature of wind power makes it impossible to manage.
Fact: Wind power is not "intermittent" in that it does not suddenly and unexpectedly turn on and off in the way that fossil fuel and nuclear plants do. Instead it is "variable", meaning that increasingly accurate weather forecasting makes it possible to predict changes in output ahead of time. This makes wind energy significantly easier to manage as
you bring it on to the grid.

Remember Anne, facts are your friend.
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red jeff
# red jeff 11-01-2012 10:12
"increasingly accurate weather forecasting makes it possible..."

Hahahahahahahahaha!!

You voted Obama, didn't you!
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Robert
# Robert 11-01-2012 20:26
Good drewski, now provide the link to where you got that data so the entire thing can be reviewed. Given your track record your Myths and Facts were written by you after putting your own interpretation of what the study says.
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john
# john 11-01-2012 08:52
Drewski,what a load of absolute Bollox!!
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Danny Heim
# Danny Heim 11-01-2012 10:09
wow dude, you really blew Drewski away with you list of facts, " load of absolute Bollox". Yeah, now that some facts.
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Danny Heim
# Danny Heim 11-02-2012 14:37
I mean, do we really like war that much, do you think there will ever be a time when we will go a whole century without war? Do you want that for us?
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