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  • mas_ttl
    I think they sniffed too much glue building their models! :lol:

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  • amirlach
    But but the Models... :D

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  • amirlach
    Maybe not locked up but made to play Jeopardy for the amusment of the unwashed ...

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sunspot

We are hearing that Great Britain is experiencing the coldest December in 1,000 years.  We also know that atmospheric temperatures more or less stopped warming in 1998 and ocean heat content (the more important metric of the earth’s temperature) is steady or slightly falling.  These measurements are markedly different than the forecasts of warming made by the International Panel on Climate Change, the group cited by most global warming proponents.

As discussed in Part II, what if these indications of cooling are just that: Signs of cooling? Since many (see here and here) are advocating cooling and desire to spend tremendous sums of money to make it happen, I must ask if this is a situation where we need to be careful what we wish for.

What might be the source of the cooling? Less energy from the sun.

When I was in meteorology school, before satellites measured the sun’s output from above the earth’s atmosphere, we were incorrectly taught about “the solar constant.” That is, the sun’s output was thought to be the same year after year, in spite of astronomers observing a variety of sunspot changes over the centuries.

Some thought the number of sunspots might affect the weather but they were generally outside the mainstream of scientific thinking.

Now, we know the sun’s output varies. Still, the IPCC has generally thought the effect of the sun’s changes on climate are minimal.

Looks like we are about to find out whether the IPCC's hypothesis is correct.

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Comments   

 
# John 2010-12-31 12:46
"Still, the IPCC has generally thought the effect of the sun’s changes on climate are minimal."
Hilarious. So if we were to reduce the sun's output by 50% (or any other value) it wouldn't have any impact?

Happy 2011!
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# Ralph 2010-12-31 14:31
the IPCC has generally thought the effect of the sun’s changes on climate are minimal.

Where the H*ll do they think the change of seasons comes from??? The earth tilts on its axis, away from the sun to give us winter, towards the sun to give us summer. Basic grade school science.
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# anorak 2011-01-01 16:53
Quote:
The earth tilts on its axis, away from the sun to give us winter, towards the sun to give us summer. Basic grade school science.
Is that what you learned in grade school? The earth tilts. Wouldn't you think such a large motion would be sort of noticeable to us little creatures on the surface.

The earth's axis of rotation in inclined to the plane of its orbit around the sun. As we go round the Sun each hemisphere has a turn at being nearer the Sun.
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# Russ 2011-01-01 17:34
I think he meant it is on a tilt, not that it tilts.

And if it did tilt, why would you think it would be noticable to us little creatures here on the surface. When the rotation of the earth at the equator is calculated to be over 1000 MPH, and that tilt would be very small in comparison and slow as it would happen over months!
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# anorak 2011-01-01 18:52
Yes, I expected this answer. I was going on what he said, not on what you think he might have meant to say.
Try this little experiment. Hold a classroom earth globe by its stand and spin the globe around. Now turn the stand to give the globe a tilt. Notice any torque? Now you may think that a change over six months would not be noticeable, but at the spring equinox that turning movement would be be at a maximum. I haven't done a calculation but I wouldn't be surprised if plumblines were just a little bit out and maybe ocean circulation would have a bit of slosh.
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# Russ 2011-01-01 22:47
Yeah and I was going on what you said too, so you know how silly you sound with that remark! :-*
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# anorak 2011-01-02 07:53
Quoting Russ:
Yeah and I was going on what you said too, so you know how silly you sound with that remark! :-*


Russ,
If you have some scientific point to advance let's hear it. I was trying to correct Ralph's misunderstanding. This notion that the Earth tilts is a common misunderstanding. So we rotate at 1000mph at the equator, what is that speed at the North Pole, do I hear you say zero? Now what would be the speed of this tilt? The tropics are at 23 degrees so in six months the Earth would have to tilt through 46 degrees. That's about one eighth of the circumference, or about 3000 miles. Now 3000 miles in six months is about 16 miles a day, though the speed would be double at the equinox (and zero at the solstice) so 32 miles a day is about 1.4 miles per hour. Hey we are going to shift the entire Pacific ocean at 1.4 miles per hour and then stop it three months later. Good luck.
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# amirlach 2011-01-02 11:49
The earth is tilted in relation to the plane of it's orbit around the sun.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axial_tilt

"Over the course of an orbit, while the angle of the axial tilt doesn't change, the orientation of a planet's axial tilt moves through 360 degrees (one complete orbit around the Sun), relative to the Sun, causing the seasons."

If earths axis of rotation was shifting so wildly it would be impossible to have geostationary orbiting satilites.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geostationary_orbit
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# anorak 2011-01-02 14:23
Quoting amirlach:
The earth is tilted in relation to the plane of it's orbit around the sun.


amirlach,
That's exactly what I said in my first message. I was trying to point out to Ralph his error and give Russ a little idea of how we can exclude this false premise with a simple calculation.
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# Russ 2011-01-02 16:48
Yeah I got that and I was pointing out your error as well! read my first comment! :-*
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# anorak 2011-01-02 17:08
Quoting Russ:
Yeah I got that and I was pointing out your error as well! read my first comment! :-*


Russ,
What was my error? Was it a lack of politeness or something scientific? If it was the first I'll apologise. If it's the second, let's see what you have to say.
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# Russ 2011-01-03 00:15
I guess you can't read then! HAHAHA!
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# anorak 2011-01-03 05:34
Quoting Russ:
I guess you can't read then! HAHAHA!


Russ,
When you are in a hole it's time to stop digging.
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# Ralph 2011-01-03 06:29
Sure we notice the tilt of the earth. It's called summer, fall, winter, spring.

Didn't I say the Earth tilts on its axis?
Inclined=tilt.
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# Ralph 2011-01-03 17:42
And if you don't believe me anorak:

tilt (tlt)
v. tilt·ed, tilt·ing, tilts

1. To slope; incline.

www.thefreedictionary.com/tilt
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# chuck in st paul 2010-12-31 17:33
Yet the blogs are full of silly people still banging the drum for AGW. When you ask them about the missing Mid Tropospheric Hot Spot and other measurable anomolies you either get silence or a spew of hatred because you're killing Mother Gaia and the Polar Bears. Gee I'm getting sick of 'em.
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# Russ 2010-12-31 19:56
HAHAHA, that's because they can't tax the Sun, But I bet they will your tax solar pannels, or add tax to the land they are on, or tax the space above them! HAHAHA! Just like when you buy and own property, HAHAHAHA and YOU get TAXED and TAXED for something you own! HAHAHA! One way or another they are gona make you pay pay pay, wether you are green or not. And don't think because you rent you won't pay it, they make you pay a different tax to be in that area and using the roads and what ever that community has to offer, HAHAHA! And the green weenies are falling for it hook line and sinker because they are as dumb as a bag of hammers! When it all finally comes to that narrow part of the road they are hearding everyone and everything, then the pointy part of the arrow will show it's self! HAHAHA And WE TOLD YOU SO!
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# michael 2011-01-02 22:30
PURE AND SIMPLE WHEN THE SUN UNDERGOES VOLATILITIES (A TIME OF EXAGERATED SOLAR ACTIVITY) WE SEE GLOBAL WARMING. RIGHT NOW THE OPPOSITE IS OCCURING SO WE ARE WITNESSING A SPATE OF GLOBAL COOLING, HENCE ALL THE ICE AND SNOW OVER THE LAST THREE YEARS. STOP TRYING TO EXTEND THE RELAMS OF SCIENCE BY MAKING THE IMPOSSIBE SEEM POSSIBLE. REMEMBER CARS OMMIT MUCH LESS CO2 THAN HORSES, SO MUCH OF WHAT IS SAID TODAY IS INEFFICIENT WITH THE TRUTH. MR GORE WILL END UP WITH EGG ON HIS FACE IN A FEW YEARS BUT HE HE CARE, NOT A BIT HE WILL HAVE MADE SO MUCH MONEY FROM THIS SCAM.
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